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Cristina Duarte 00:00

Energy is magic. As simple as that. Energy is magic. As we speak, from an electricity standpoint, the dark continent is Africa. 600 million people without electricity. But Africa is all energy sources. So, this is a paradox that needs to be broken.

 

Melissa Fleming 00:34

From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. Welcome to Awake at Night. Energy is magic. And so is my colleague and friend Cristina Duarte, the Ãå±±½ûµØUnder-Secretary-General and Special Adviser on Africa. She brings passion to everything she does. Welcome, Cristina.

 

Cristina Duarte 01:03

Thank you, Melissa. A pleasure to be here.

 

Melissa Fleming 01:05

Before you joined the UN, you were finance minister in your home country of Cabo Verde or Cape Verde, as it's known in English, for 10 years, from 2006 to 2016. What are you most proud of having achieved during that time?

 

Cristina Duarte 01:25

Melissa, to have the opportunity in my life to serve my country for 10 years as Minister of Finance and Planning was the best gift that my life gave to me. I was born under the colonial period. I experienced the independence of my country. And I would say my countries because I'm also highly connected to Guinea-Bissau and Angola. Then, to have the opportunity to serve my country as Minister of Finance was just a blessing. A blessing. And of course, I served with passion as I do everything on life. And I can say to you that maybe what I'm proud of - I have been able to implement a huge deep reform of the public finance management system. And this is not technical. It¡¯s not technical because that reform has increased Cape Verde¡¯s policy space, which means Cape Verde¡¯s ownership. So, it goes beyond a technical issue. It touches political science. It made history. So yes, was a great experience.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 03:09

I believe you when you started as finance minister, it was considered a least developed country. And I've been told that you played a decisive role in transforming it from a least developed country to a developing country. So, how did you do that?

 

Cristina Duarte 03:30

Cape Verde is a very small country. Small countries by definition, Melissa, leadership needs to pay a close attention to inequalities. Because we are close. We are almost one family. We meet every day. We listen talking about each other every day. So, in a big country maybe inequalities are visually diluted. In Cape Verde - no. So, for all of us and me as Minister of Finance, it was clear that the main purpose of serving, and me as Minister of Finance, was to try to maintain inequalities within a moral perimeter. I will give you the example of school feeding, very quickly. I'm sure you remember Melissa, in 2008 international crisis, subprime crisis hit everybody. And of course, Cape Verde. Because we depend on the external aggregate demand. And two years after Cape Verde has been hit by international crisis, World Food Programme decides to withdraw from school feeding Cape Verde with a coverage rate of 100%.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:52

So just backing up, in every school the World Food Programme was providing meals for the children.

 

Cristina Duarte 04:58

Exactly.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:59

In every single school.

 

Cristina Duarte 05:00

Exactly.

 

Melissa Fleming 05:01

And they had to stop.

 

Cristina Duarte 05:02

And they decided to withdraw because we have been graduated to a middle-income country. For me, as Minister of Finance was clear how that one programme - school feeding - has had a major contribution. I had no alternative than to keep the programme going on. And this is what happened.

 

Melissa Fleming 05:25

But you knew that if the school feeding discontinued, what would that look like for many children?

 

Cristina Duarte 05:31

Would be a disaster because the amount of children that are fed through the school feeding. Because we need to understand that when you feed a child, you feed the mother. When you feed a mother, you feed the family. And when you feed a family, you feed a community. As simple as that. So, school feeding is much, much beyond, Melissa, a hot meal for a child in school. It¡¯s a strong tool of social cohesion. It¡¯s a strong tool to fight inequalities. It¡¯s a strong tool to make sure that that child gets the minimum of nutrients so that he can perform as a human being. He can be happy as a human being. So, this is a clear example that what has been driving me is this type of impact.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 06:33

When you close your eyes now and think of your country, what comes to mind?

 

Cristina Duarte 06:39

Oh, it¡¯s beautiful. It¡¯s beautiful.

 

Melissa Fleming 06:46

What does it look like?

 

Cristina Duarte 06:47

Oh, it¡¯s¡­ I see sunshine. I see a clean and beautiful ocean. I see the most outstanding music in the world. I used to say that out of ten Cape Verdeans, eleven just bring music in their veins. I see my typical food - cachupa with corn. Oh, I see so many beautiful things, Melissa.

 

Melissa Fleming 07:20

Are you one of those musicians?

 

Cristina Duarte 07:23

No. I'm the exception that confirms the rule.

 

Melissa Fleming 07:30

These days, you are Special Adviser to Africa. How did your experiences in Cape Verde influence your work today?

 

Cristina Duarte 07:40

One hundred percent. Not to say 150%. Not to say 200%. Again, I do believe that this opportunity allows me to use, to make available to the Ãå±±½ûµØsystem my 25, 30 years of policymaking experience in Africa when I push for certain agendas as Special Adviser, let's say energy. So, I've been pushing as you know for the energy agenda. Why? I have a small story in my country. I think in my second mandate in ground visits, site visits, there was a small village I think with 60, 65 families that were below poverty line. And they had no water, no electricity. Their situation was a quite vulnerable one. I went back. I stretched the budget. And the only thing we did, Melissa, was to bring to that small village - the government, not myself, but the government - water and electricity. A couple of years after, we went back. All were above the poverty line. And this gave us a lesson. To make the difference, sometimes we don't need billions. We just need political will. We just need strategic vision. The most absent resources, in certain situations, is not financial resources. No. Political will, strategic vision, programmatic approach.

 

Melissa Fleming 09:36

When you mentioned energy¡­ And I know you've probably seen these maps where they show the lights, the world maps. And in Africa, it's often, you know, there are lots of patches of dark where people don't have any access to electricity. Is that what you see when you say energy has to be a priority for Africa?

 

Cristina Duarte 09:59

Energy, from a policymaking standpoint, Melissa, energy is magic. As simple as that. Energy is magic. As we speak, Africa is a dark continent. A dark¡­ If you saw the world map from an electricity standpoint, the dark continent is Africa. 600 million people without electricity. But Africa is all energy sources. So, this is a paradox that needs to be broken. And unless we unblock energy access in Africa, in the next [inaudible] years, Africa will be a dark continent preventing food security, preventing education, preventing health. You name it. You name it.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 11:00

Is there any¡­ When you look at Africa now. I mean, I just came back from Kenya where they were very proud that 90% of the country is powered by renewable energy. Are there examples in Africa that are kind of forerunners that you're proud of?

 

Cristina Duarte 11:20

There are some outliers that are coming from energy access, one. And from renew of energy, two. There are outliers. I know that, for example, Benin is addressing this very nicely. Cape Verde as then, I was in government. So, when we reached a quite high electricity coverage rate in Cape Verde, 90-98%. Kenya. Some southern African countries. But we reach a point that to have a couple of good students in the room is no longer enough. You need to address energy in Africa at a continental level and in a massive way. So, energy I think needs to be - even from an African partnership standpoint, from African partners - they need to put at the top. Of course, starting again, from institutions, regulatory frameworks. There is no way that we can, in a massive way, revamp electricity coverage rates in Africa without addressing the regulatory frameworks, because we need private sector to do that.

 

Melissa Fleming 12:45

So, Cristina, I am wondering, just what personally about your life and your past motivates you to bring out the voices of Africa and to change the narrative on Africa in the UN?

 

Cristina Duarte 13:00

Oh, Melissa. I need to start when I was, I believe 12 ,13, 14 years old. I¡¯m sorry.

 

Melissa Fleming 13:09

Please do.

 

Cristina Duarte 13:14

I grew up in a Pan-Africanist family. And this is another blessing on my life. The fact that life gave me the opportunity to be born in a Pan-Africanist family is a blessing. My family was highly involved with the liberation movement of my country. My family was one of the families that played a leadership role in the nation building. So, I used to say that my father was very intentionally, in terms of feeding me with Pan-Africanism. I was 13 years old. I was a teenager. And I was taught by my father, I was explained by my father, the colonial systems, the neocolonial systems, the fight for independence, the rules of this, everything. I was 13,14. Instead of playing, I don¡¯t know, with [inaudible], I was listening that.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 14:22

And what was he doing at that time when you were 13?

 

Cristina Duarte 14:25

My father during the colonial period was a lawyer in Angola. He went to Angola for political reasons, let's say in this way. Then, after the independence, we came back to Cape Verde. He came back to Cape Verde to participate in the nation building process. And my father's participation in the nation building process - until of course, he passed away - in a certain way, it was a live example of commitment, engagement with the country. I had that example every day in my family.

 

Melissa Fleming 15:08

I mean, when you¡­ I looked a little bit into the background of your family, and your father was considered a freedom fighter.

 

Cristina Duarte 15:15

Yes.

 

Melissa Fleming 15:16

What did that mean to you as a little girl, or as a teenager?

 

Cristina Duarte 15:20

Meant that¡­Can you believe, Melissa, to have a live example in your family? This is a blessing.

 

Melissa Fleming 15:33

But did you know it at the time? I mean, you were a teenager.

 

Cristina Duarte 15:36

Yes. Oh, yeah. My father was very intentional in educating me with a high level of political consciousness. It was not by distraction, was not a sort of byproduct of the education, was the driver of my education. The driver of my¡­ I remember when I was discussing if I would go to study architecture, or civil engineering, he told me, ¡®Sorry, my daughter but I believe that you need to study economy. Because economy gives you the background knowledge, first, to understand the system. Second, to understand the position of your country in the system. And third, what you are supposed to do as a citizen in your country to make sure that your country is surviving the system.¡¯ So, it was very intentional. And this makes me deliver my function as Minister of Finance as I deliver. And this is behind me as Special Adviser on Africa.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 16:46

And what about your mother? What was she like?

 

Cristina Duarte 16:50

My mother¡­ I used to say that my father was the one taking care of the substantive, the political consciousness part of the education, and my mother to make sure that I was a person that understood the social rules. And that those social rules were supposed to be followed. Because at the end of the day, you belong to a community, and you are supposed to respect that same community. The belonging feeling, do you see what I mean? The feeling to belong to a community. And nowadays, I believe that this is in the breaking process. If you allow me, Melissa, sometimes I question myself. We look back the past 50 years of our democratic models where the social contract has been broken. Because when you break the social contract, you break the individual link to the community. And this has huge consequences.

 

Melissa Fleming 18:16

What was her social contract with you as the daughter?

 

Cristina Duarte 18:20

In the case of Cape Verde, the social contract that we tried to build is to make Cape Verde a country where every Cape Verdean is entitled to. At the end of the day, it¡¯s entitlement. There are no Cape Verdeans that are more entitled than others. It cannot be seen in this way. It cannot be seen in¡­ I don't think in Cape Verde, because we are small, we have chronic vulnerabilities, chronic fragilities. And you need to¡­ When delivering leadership, you need to be conscious that you need to keep these things together. If you break down, there are huge consequences. There are huge consequences.

 

Melissa Fleming 19:20

What did your parents think about you becoming finance minister?

 

Cristina Duarte 19:25

My father had passed away before, but I'm sure that he would be very proud. I'm sure, 300% sure. My mother was proud. But I have to admit that my mother suffered a little bit. Because when you are in these politically exposed positions, you are also attacked. I handled very well because these are the political games. This is what democracy is delivering nowadays. We see everywhere, unfortunately. But my mother, she didn't have the defence mechanism to manage that because she¡­

 

Melissa Fleming 20:15

It hurt her when you were attacked.

 

Cristina Duarte 20:17

Oh, yes. I would laugh and she would suffer. I would literally laugh.

 

Melissa Fleming 20:24

I remember asking you just when we were chatting one day about your personal life, you know what you say. I said, ¡®So are you married? Do you have any kids?¡¯ And you told me this story about you never wanted to get married and then something happened.

 

Cristina Duarte 20:39

Oh, yes.

 

Melissa Fleming 20:40

Tell me about that.

 

 

Cristina Duarte 20:41

I was prepared¡­ Actually, I had taken the decision first not to get married but to have at least a child, because I wanted to be a mother. Yes, a single mother.

 

Melissa Fleming 20:56

You wanted to be a single mother.

 

Cristina Duarte 20:58

Yes. For a couple of reasons, I had taken that decision. But then I met my actual husband, Giovanni. And I changed completely.

 

Melissa Fleming 21:14

So, how did you meet Giovanni?

 

Cristina Duarte 21:16

I met¡­ Giovanni was the tenant of my mother. Can you believe was the tenant of my mother? And my mother went on vacation. I had to manage tenant issues. And we met in this way. And then we start talking.

 

Melissa Fleming 21:39

He's Italian.

 

Cristina Duarte 21:40

He's Italian. He¡¯s an outstanding person.

 

Melissa Fleming 21:42

Was working for the UN?

 

Cristina Duarte 21:43

He was already working for the United Nations. Was not the World Food Programme that is he works today. Was for the meteorological international organization at that time. And after, of course, interacting with him, and knowing him as a person - how he embraces values, and principles, how he is the most sweetest person in the world - I changed my mind. I changed my mind in such a dramatic way that I asked him to marry me. Can you believe that? From being a single mother - or wanting being [inaudible] - I asked him to marry me.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:27

And what did he say?

 

Cristina Duarte 22:30

First response was, ¡®No.¡¯ Yes, because I work too much. I was working 12, 13, 14 hours a day.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:41

So, he said, ¡®That's not a¡­¡¯

 

Cristina Duarte 22:43

But then, we managed to find a common ground.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:50

You stopped working so much.

 

Cristina Duarte 22:52

Yes. Of course, I had to balance. I had to balance. Yes. I couldn't miss the opportunity, Melissa.

 

Melissa Fleming 23:01

And you had a child together.

 

Cristina Duarte 23:03

We have a child. We have a daughter - Jessica. Amazing. She is 26 years old. She's a lovely human being, a lovely human being.

 

Melissa Fleming 23:20

Did she follow in your footsteps?

 

Cristina Duarte 23:21

I think much better. Much better. She¡­ As a human being, I do believe that she's more¡­ She delivers more affection, more solidarity. She's more soft. She handles friendship in a much better way. She's emotionally smarter than me. I think she's a better version. She's a Ãå±±½ûµØ2.0. She¡¯s better. Is better than myself.

 

Melissa Fleming 23:57

I recall you told me Giovanni has another talent that suits you, which is cooking.

 

Cristina Duarte 24:06

Oh, yeah. Suits me very well. That was not the reason I asked him. But yes, I don't like to cook. My apologies. I don't like to cook. And since I don't like, I never was motivated to learn how to cook. And Giovanni, just the opposite. He loves to cook. And he cooks very well. Outstanding. And he's much more social than me. Much more. Thanks God. I¡¯m very closed sometimes. And yeah, he cooks very well. One day, I hope you will be able to taste it.

 

Melissa Fleming 24:50

I really hope so too. So, you were born in Lisbon?

 

Cristina Duarte 24:59

Oh, yeah. I used to say that I'm the perfect colonial product. Can I tell you?

 

Melissa Fleming 25:04

Yes.

 

Cristina Duarte 25:07

Parents Cape Verdean, both. I was born in Lisbon. I grew up in Angola. So, I used to say that I'm the perfect colonial product. So, parents Cape Verdean, born in Lisbon, grew up in Angola. Yes, I was born in Lisbon when my parents were in their way to Angola. Because I was two months old when I land in Angola. And I left, I was already 13 years old. This is a reason that I also carry Angola in my heart.

 

Melissa Fleming 25:54

But also, you mentioned colonialism. So, what does that experience of being a child of colonialism mean to you now? And what is your message about colonialism?

 

Cristina Duarte 26:05

Oh, most of my generation, in all the African countries, they were not exposed to the colonial period. Because when they were born, those African countries were already independent. ¡®75¡­ Most of the African independence occur in the 60s. We were one of the last. So, when I talk to my peers, my brothers, African brothers, I am the one that was exposed to colonial. I'm talking about the same generation. I was one that had been exposed to colonial powers. They were not. And you cannot imagine how this makes a huge difference.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 27:04

How?

 

Cristina Duarte 27:06

Because I feel it. I feel it. When I was in Angola, I was bullied for racial issues. I feel it. Oh, yeah.

 

Melissa Fleming 27:21

You were bullied?

 

Cristina Duarte 27:22

Yes, yes, for racial in the school. Because my father was a lawyer, we had a quite I would say, a quite good financial situation. So, my parents could allow pay for good schools. And in those schools, I was the only black. Yes, I was the only black.

 

Melissa Fleming 27:50

Really?

 

Cristina Duarte 27:51

Yes, until nine years old.

 

Melissa Fleming 27:54

How did that make you feel?

 

Cristina Duarte 27:56

I have been bullied.

 

Melissa Fleming 27:57

In an African country.

 

Cristina Duarte 27:58

Yes. I have been bullied. But again, when I used to go back to home, my father and my mother, they were aware of that, and they were completely prepared to¡­ How can I say, to dilute it, to cancel, to neutralize. Yes. So, it didn't affect me. As an adult person, it did not affect my personality. Actually, it fed maybe my Pan-Africanism.

 

Melissa Fleming 28:34

How do you feel about colonialism when you've had that experience?

 

Cristina Duarte 28:40

It was a huge bill for Africa and we¡¯re still paying today because the colonial evolved to a neocolonial. Believe Melissa, Africa still pays a huge bill, a huge bill.

 

Melissa Fleming 28:58

So, when you're looking at not only your country now but all of Africa in your current role, what is keeping you awake at night?

 

 

Cristina Duarte 29:12

The fact that the solutions for our challenges are all in Africa. All. You name it. You name it. Energy, Africa, financing for development, Africa, food insecurity, Africa. You name it. But for some reason, we still look outside of Africa for solutions. Why? Mindset. This is what makes me awake ¨C mindset.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:03

And your goal?

 

Cristina Duarte 30:05

And to change mindset is a generational process. Is not one day, is not one year, is not five years. Do you know, Africa's development agenda has a vision.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:16

What is Africa's vision?

 

Cristina Duarte 30:18

And they have a strong sentence ¨C ¡°The Africa We Want.¡± And in 2021, I create a campaign with UNOSAA ¨C ¡°The Africa we want is the Africa the world needs.¡± And I do believe that everybody needs to connect with that. Africans, of course, the Africa we want. But also, African partners.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:57

And if you would picture that Africa, what does it look like?

 

Cristina Duarte 31:00

The Africa we want?

 

Melissa Fleming 31:01

The Africa we want, what does is it look¡­?  Describe what at the Africa we want looks like?

 

Cristina Duarte 31:07

When 99% of the Africans that they just want to live in Africa and not to leave. Because they there, they have the social space to fully exercise all the entitlements of a human being. It doesn't happen today. This is Africa we want. And that Africa that we want as Africans is the Africa the world needs. So, it¡¯s not only an African business, an African challenge, an African issue. It¡¯s a global issue because our planet, our world, needs a different Africa.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:06

Well, I have no doubt that you will move the needle in getting much further towards the Africa we want. Cristina, thank you for joining us on Awake at Night.

 

 

Cristina Duarte 32:19

Thank you, Melissa, for the opportunity. Thank you. I think I loved to have this conversation with you, I have to admit.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:26

I have to say I did too. Feeling very inspired.

 

Cristina Duarte 32:29

Thank you.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:32

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. On Twitter, we¡¯re and I'm . Do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people find the show.

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell, to Jen Thomas, Adam Paylor, to my colleagues at the UN: Roberta Politi, Julia Hagel, Geneva Damayanti, Tulin Battikhi and Bissera Kostova. And the team at the Ãå±±½ûµØstudio. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier. Additional music was by Pascal Wyse.