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Melissa Fleming 00:00

I am so inspired by my guest this week. Born to a family who had to flee from Rwanda to Burundi, she now works tirelessly to help refugees herself.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 00:12

For me every time I meet them, I tell them: 'Don't lose hope, you are not going to be a refugee forever. One day you¡¯ll go home, and you can use the skills you have learned here. So any opportunity you have, learn it.'

 

Melissa Fleming 00:34

Juliette Murekeyisoni is UNHCR's Deputy Representative in South Sudan. She told me her incredible story. From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. Welcome to Awake at Night. Juliette, it's great to see you again. I'm here in New York. Where are you today?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 01:04

Thank you so much for having me today. I'm in Juba, South Sudan. We spent today with the refugees in Gorom. Gorom it's a small refugee camp 45 minutes away from Juba. And this camp hosts Sudanese, Congolese, Burundian, Rwandan, Ethiopian refugees. When this camp started, we started in 2010 with 2000 people. Today with the Sudan crisis, we have almost 13,000.

 

Melissa Fleming 01:39

It is a sign and a symbol of conflicts and wars in the region. Maybe you can describe South Sudan and the means that it has to host so many refugees, and maybe the role of UNHCR in trying to help South Sudan cope with these kinds of numbers.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 02:00

You know, as you know, South Sudan, it's a new country - just 11 years of independence. And of course it's a country also coming from a war. They have a lot of challenges. But despite all that they opened borders to welcome other refugees in the country. Of course, we opened a camp. We have about four camps in South Sudan. So what we do really is to support them with shelter, with the basic needs really, if I may say.

 

Melissa Fleming 02:32

You mentioned that swelling numbers of people are fleeing the horrific war in Sudan and seeking refuge in South Sudan. What is it like? Can you just paint a picture of these camps that are hosting so many Sudanese refugees?

 

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 02:51

In the beginning, when everybody came, it was just like an influx. And of course, for refugees we transport them to Maban where we had a camp, which had been there for almost 15 years. But again, refugees, most of them, they didn't want to go to Maban. Maybe for many reasons. So the refugees who are coming, they are those ones who came from Khartoum who have... who were used to internet communication. But when you go to Maban, there is no such a kind of communication, so they didn't want to go there. So the camp it's with shelters, some plastic shade. So I would not say it's like, you know, where you can call home.

 

Melissa Fleming 03:35

It's a temporary set up. I remember being there. I think it's quite barren. Right?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 03:42

Yes, it's a... Again, it's even in a remote place, for example, with also this climate change when it rains. For example in August, and July-August, sometimes you cannot even go there. It's like roads are cut. So it's a really, really in a remote place and not many things are there.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:01

It's not easy to be a refugee or a displaced person in South Sudan. I mean, South Sudan has its own problems and some of its own population is actually displaced because of ongoing violence. How many people are internally displaced in South Sudan?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 04:18

So we will say like there's about 2 million. If I'm correct, there's about 2 million IDPs, displaced persons in South Sudan and most are displaced because of violence or because of flooding, climate change. So all that.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:38

It makes, I believe everything so much more challenging for UNHCR to respond to these kinds of situations. The funding isn't getting any bigger.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 04:51

In Gorom today, I can tell you, when I was there, really, I felt very, very, very sad. They are telling you, 'The food is cut. By next month, maybe we are not going to have food.' So you just sit there. You know, I was just looking a lot of children and a lot of women. And I'm just thinking, 'How these people really will live? And until when this will stop?'

I have been here for three years and a half. Before this war of Sudan the direction was a really good direction, where we think about solutions, where we think about... We have established a project called "A Pocket of Hope", where we supported people who are returning back to their home of origin, help them to help themselves. Not this, 'We are feeding you every day.' No. 'Giving you tools.' Even themselves, they are [inaudible], 'Give us the tools to farm.' So established a lot of cooperatives. The farmers, they got together, host communities and the returnees. The government gave us the land where the people, the refugees, can farm. So it was beautiful really until when this war came.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 06:05

What would you say to the people who are forging this war in Sudan right now, having seen so many of the victims?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 06:12

You know, I wish I can see them face to face. I will ask them a question, 'If those were their children, would they see their children in the camp there? Sitting with no food, with nothing, crying for education. What is the future of the country? What is the future of tomorrow if you are not giving education to the children? Those children who are in the camp, what is their future tomorrow?'

Really to be honest with you, Melissa, I wish I can see them together. And I don't know what I would do with them, but I would tell them... And what I would tell them, they would never forget. And I think... Yeah. Today, for me, it was... And I have to go there to give a speech talking about, you know, 'Keep... You know, have hope.  You know, don't lose hope.' It's true. I believe we should not lose hope. But you cannot keep the hope when you don't have food. You cannot keep hope when you cannot go to school. You can, you know... Yes, we keep hope, but... Yeah, it's very sad.

 

Melissa Fleming 07:28

It is very sad. I noticed you focused on the kids if you were to be able to make an appeal to the two sides at war in Sudan. When you visited that Sudanese refugee camp today, what were those kids delivering to you as a message?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 07:48

You know the children had this play. They had a drama where they have children from Congo, from Sudan, from Ethiopia, from Burundi, from Rwanda. They are all there. So, they said, 'We want a world where we have peace, right? We want to go to school.' So for them, for the kids, what they are asking, it's for education. And you see their mothers sitting there with the children looking. And you can, you know, when you are a mother, you can even see the tears in the eyes of the mother, even though they don't come out. But you can see.

But of course, for me, every time I meet them, I tell them, 'Don't lose hope. We have this organization who are building your skills. Take it seriously because you will never be... You are not going to be a refugee forever. One day, you will go home, and you can use those skills you have learned here. So any opportunity you have, learn it.' And I tell them, 'We are very lucky, and you are lucky because the host community are welcoming you, are giving you land, are sharing with you what they have. So that is the beauty, because there are other places where they don't even want to see you as a refugee.'

 

 

Melissa Fleming 09:06

There are horrible reports of sexual violence against women in Sudan. What have you heard from some of the women that you have met who fled those horrors?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 09:19

You know, Melissa, I worked in many countries, but in South Sudan the women they are not afraid to tell you that, 'I have been raped ten times, five times.' Yeah. They are not afraid to tell you. They tell you and they tell you in detail. There is one woman that we met, and she was telling us how on her way from Sudan to South Sudan, she was kept for almost 3-4 days with her daughter, and they would rape her, they would rape her daughter by many men. Not only one. Yeah. And she's not the only one. And imagine, you are a mother. You have a daughter there. And they do this in front of you and the daughter and you at the same time. How do you think this mother will ever heal? Never. Or the child. 

 

Melissa Fleming 10:25

And yet they want to talk to you about this experience.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 10:29

They are sharing with someone who is listening. You know, if there's anything we can do, we do. But at least that talking, I think it makes them heal.

 

Melissa Fleming 10:40

How do you cope yourself when you hear about all of this suffering?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 10:45

You know when I started working with UNHCR [inaudible]. First, I started in Rwanda in 1995 and left. Then I went to Western Sahara and from there then I went to Yemen. In Yemen, that's where I worked a lot on the sexual and gender-based violence. And for the three years I worked there, after I told my husband I would not work on this matter again. And it was the first time that I saw boys being raped from five years old to 10-11 years old. And of course, it was a shame for their mother. And then they kind of neglect those children. And some of them would be taken to a juvenile jail. And I worked a lot, a lot, a lot.

At that time, Melissa, I was in Yemen with my husband and my son, and my son was two years old. And then I told my husband, I said, 'Please go back. I will remain alone here.' Because I go to work. He goes to work. We leave my son with a helper in the house. What happens if that helper goes somewhere? What's going to happen with my son? I told Juan Jose, I said, 'Please go back. I will remain here.' So I worked a lot on the sexual [and] gender-based violence for men, women, children. But what hurt me so much is those boys. It was not one or two or three or four or five. There were many. So at that time I said, 'I'm not going to work on this matter again.' But then, of course, in our work, we faced this all the time, and you cannot ignore it. So I just... I got used to it, but sometimes, especially for the boys, it comes back to me. And, but yeah.

 

Melissa Fleming 13:10

Just about the boys. What was it in particular that affected you so much?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 13:17

One was five years old, six years old. It's a very naive boy. It's very innocent. And then so that to happen to him. And when you run to your mother and your mother rejects you. And that's what I think affected me a lot. And I work closely also with the mothers. I will have some kind of focus group discussion with the mother to, you know, to tell them: 'Really, it should not be this way. Instead of rejecting your son, you should actually support the son.' It's not healing. It's not healing, you know. And I have, at the time, I told you I have a boy of two years old. I'm like, 'If they are naive, how can you reject them?' So those things affected me a lot. There are many nights I didn't sleep. And at that time there also because security was not bad, I could spend with the family until the 10:00 in the night or 11:00 in the night and come back home. So, you know, I was not expecting that. It was... That's the first time, I come across to that.

 

Melissa Fleming 14:27

It's absolutely horrific. I mean, I'm just wondering if all of this affects you more because you were a refugee yourself. In 1959, your parents fled Rwanda to Burundi, which is where you were born. What was your life like as a child before you had to flee?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 14:49

Of course, we were living in Burundi as refugees. That time we could go to school. You know, Melissa, if you see those days and you compare it today, there's a big, big, big change. That time, you had a scholarship. That time, there was funding to support the refugees. And so I remember going to school. But of course, you are refugees. You are called refugees. You have a refugee card. And in the school, everybody knows that you are a refugee. But always, especially when we do national exams, where for refugees they had to have at least 70% or 80%. While the Burundians would have to get like 40-45%. So those kinds of things, calling, you know, names, knowing that you have a refugee card, knowing that you are not in your home. So those are the things. Me, I grew up, maybe... We were five in my family and I'm the second child and I'm bit different than my brothers and my sister. I was always knowing that I would not die as a refugee. I knew I would go home. Any opportunity I would get, I would go home.

 

Melissa Fleming 16:15

And you didn't really even remember what home was like, but even so, it had such a draw to you.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 16:21

Yes, I knew that I'm Rwandan, but I had never been in Rwanda. I don't know how Rwanda looked like. Nothing. But I always knew that I want to be home. I want to be home. I want to be home.

 

Melissa Fleming 16:37

Can you describe what your living situation was like in Burundi?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 16:42

We were poor. You can imagine we were poor. And my father was working at the hospital, and my mama was a teacher. Living in a mud house. You are lucky if you live in the mud house with a grass roof. Yeah. So it was tough until... So when I was in primary school, in the sixth grade, I think, a couple from Switzerland came to Burundi. And then they were living a little bit like [inaudible] minutes away from us. So, I went to fetch water, and when I went to fetch water, I met with Helen and Marcus. They come from Switzerland in Arnegg. And so they were there as teachers.

And then they asked me, 'Oh, come and get water in our house.' Because their house, it's a very beautiful house. They had water in their house. So, she told me, 'Come and get water in our house.' And at the time, of course, I went. I got the water. And I was so shocked. 'How come they asked me to get water? And then they invited me in the house. They gave me a juice.' I'm like, 'Okay.' And then... So we started becoming friends. And then, they invited me and my mom and my brothers to go to eat, to have dinner with them. So they cooked spaghetti. I think the first time I ate spaghetti and meatballs. Then we ate, and then we were happy [inaudible].

And I said, 'You know what? I also want to invite them in our house.' I'm like, 'What am I going to cook?' I said, 'I'm going to cook a small fish and I'm going to make fufu.' Then we invited them. We cooked. We are eating. When we eat, it starts raining. Melissa, the whole house was full of water. And then... So they were okay. They said, 'Oh, Juliette do you want to come and sleep in our house?' I said, 'No, no, no, no. We are staying here. It's okay.'

The next morning, they told me they would like to help me, to help my family. And then, they called me. I went to their house. They gave me money. That time, they said, 'You go, and you buy the roof and then we can put on the house.' So I came, I remember I put the money here in my [inaudible] here. I came running, running and I went to my mom. 'Mom, I want to go to buy the roof.' 'Where did you get the money? Did you steal that money?' I said, 'Me? You see me, I can steal money?' I said, 'No, I'm going to buy the roof. This is Marcus and Helen. They give me this money. So we are going to buy the roof.' Immediately there was another couple, Swiss also, a friend of Marcus. They had a car, so I asked them if they can help me to go buy the roof. I gave my mom money. 'You go, find the people to get the wood, and me I'm going to get the roof.' Within one month, we have a house, a shelter, a proper shelter.

 

Melissa Fleming 20:12

I could tell that you're very moved by this act of this Swiss couple. Are you still in touch with them?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 20:20

Oh yes, I'm in touch with them. They also supported me to go to high school. They paid for my education. And they had a baby. And the baby they called Juliette.

 

Melissa Fleming 20:31

Where is Juliette?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 20:32

They live in Z¨¹rich. Now Juliette has also a baby. So it's a... We are family.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 20:38

That is lovely. When you had just graduated from high school in Burundi, the 1994 genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda began. Do you remember when you first heard about it and what did you feel?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 20:56

You know, I mentioned in the beginning I was looking at any opportunity I can get to go home. We were in... At that time we were in Bujumbura, and there were a lot of people who came, who were fleeing Rwanda coming to Burundi. You found women with cuts everywhere with the machete everywhere. I'm like, 'You know, I don't belong here.' And at the time, you know, some people were going to Rwanda to help those people who were wounded, in the beginning. So after... The genocide started of the 7th. Around 14 days later, I left. I got an opportunity. And then I said to the people who were leaving, going to Rwanda to help, I said, 'I am also going.'

 

Melissa Fleming 21:47

Weren't you scared?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 21:49

You know, I don't get scared that easily. My mind was just, 'I want to go and help.' And I also said, 'I would rather die there than dying here.' Meaning, I want to go to my country. Despite all what was happening, I want to enter. We went. We were in... 1:00, I put my bag so I would sleep together with my sister on the same bed. So I left the door open. I went slowly, slowly, slowly. No one heard me. I went. I entered into that truck. We were about 20. And I think were two ladies. That's how I went to Rwanda. So we went to the border. And then so the truck left us there. And then we would work.

Many people were coming there, wounded people at hospital, all that. There were two nuns who were there at the hospital, helping people at the hospital. So I remember when I came, I remember the scene of dead people everywhere. Anyway. So with those nuns, with the other team, we were always going in the woods, in the bush to see if we still find people who were still alive. And then I remember we found the two children who were still alive but wounded. And their mother was killed. Their father was killed, and the other three siblings were killed. Those kids were about maybe, I would say, maybe one year, one year and a half, or two [years old]. So we took them. That time, there was the place where we put all the kids who are with no parents. Those nuns were the ones supporting them.

So, in short, it was a scene that I would never imagine. And I could not imagine someone can just take a machete and cut the neck. Or for the pregnant women, cut and take the baby out. I was numb. When I see all those things, I was numb. 'No, this is not possible. This is not possible. I don't want to think about it. Let's just continue. Let's just continue to support those whom we can support.'

 

Melissa Fleming 24:02

Were you not in danger working in that area?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 24:05

In that area, I was not. You never know. You never know because some people were still hiding and some people who kill, they were still hiding. You could even be killed. But at that time, Melissa, when you see thousands, thousands of dead people. You go to the church. You know me, I'm very Christian, I'm very Catholic. When I entered in the church in Nyamata and I see what I saw, there was no time to be scared.

 

Melissa Fleming 24:36

What did you see?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 24:37

What I saw? I saw dead people in the church. Dead. Thousands, thousands [of] dead people in the church. These people, they came to ask for refuge, and they died in the church. You know, we feel that no one could come to church to kill me, you know. Because really, we saw the church as a holy place. Nobody can enter to kill anyone. But when I entered, I saw all dead people there. It took me time to go to church [inaudible]. I just said, 'Look, I can pray anywhere I am. It's not necessary I have to go to church.'

 

Melissa Fleming 25:14

You were working there as a volunteer and doing what you could. And I understand that this is when UNHCR first discovered you and you met an American nurse who helped change your life. Tell me what happened.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 25:32

Margaret McCluskey, she was a nurse working with the [inaudible]. And then we became friends. At the time, actually, my English was not so good. And she only spoke English. So we discussed, we communicated by hand. We communicate looking in the dictionary. We became really like sisters.

And then, when we in 1995, when we have massive people coming. So I was working, I was driving a motorbike. I was enjoying. I was the only woman driving a motorbike and I was driving motorbike with my sneakers. I left and Margaret was in the car. I didn't even see her. I just saw many people coming. And I saw a woman who had a basket on the head, baby on the back, and two babies on the... Walking. They had been walking, walking, walking. This woman could not walk anymore. And I said, 'Wow.' I stopped my motorbike. I took my sneakers and the socks. I put on her. So she wore... I gave my shoes and my socks. I took my motorbike. I left. So Margaret saw me.

And then in the evening Margaret asked me, 'Juliette, do you to want to go to America?' I looked at her. 'I can only go to America if I go to school. But not to go to wash dishes.' She looked at me. She laughed. And she said, 'No, no, Juliette.  For me, I'm a nurse. I don't have so much money. But I will find how we can get you to United States.' I said, 'I told you, if I can go to school to do my undergrad, to do my masters, I will go running. But if I'm going to do the job washing dishes, I'm not going.'

Then she contacted a family in Connecticut ¨C [the] Teagardens. They are my family. They are my everything. Immediately... That time, there was not so much email actually.  I still have this the piece of paper. The email was a kind of telegram or something like that. And Margaret wrote to them. 'There's this woman. She's young. She has a future. But I'm not able to support... What can we do?' Teagarden and Celine, they said, 'We want Juliette today. That is our Christmas gift.'

Margaret went to the US embassy. And that time, the ambassador was a woman. I wish I can know where she is today. And then Margaret went and told her, 'Juliette is a bright woman, young lady, who wants to have education.' And, she said, 'I will give you a six-month visa. When you get to the United States, you apply for I-20 student visa.' Melissa, I was shaking. I kept my passport with my visa. I didn't tell anybody. Nobody. I was going to leave like tomorrow. I went and told my mom.

And then we see how God does things.  Margaret also, they didn't renew her visa, so she had to leave. And so we had to go together. And I was like, 'How God is great! How can I go alone in the place I don't know?' You see, I told Margaret, 'You see, it's good you didn't get the visa renewed so I can go together.' And then...  So I get my visa. I tell my mom in the evening. I say, 'You know, mom, I'm going to America tomorrow.' [Inaudible] say, 'You, you are crazy Juliette. You are crazy. Where to America?' I say, 'I'm going to America tomorrow.' So they think it's a joke. I said, 'Okay. You will see.'

I went to the airport with Margaret. We entered the plane. Through UK to New York City. That's how Juliette went. And Teagarden welcomed me with open arms in Connecticut, Brookfield. It was the first time I see such a kind of place. It was the first time I see one big house here, another one there. I'm like, 'These people. How come, they don't have neighbours?' It was... I don't know how to explain. I don't know how to express myself with the little English I had. And my family, they speak English only. Celine, the mother spoke a bit of French, but not really good. So yeah. That's how I arrived at that house. They showed me my room. They showed my bed. I was like, 'Wow!'  I said to myself... I couldn't sleep all night. I said, 'I'm coming here. I am going to study night and day.'

 

Melissa Fleming 30:24

And you ended up going to college and getting a master's degree.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 30:31

And so thanks to Teagarden again, they helped me. I went to school. They paid for my education for one year. I get a scholarship. And I was working at the school. And the money I was working at school, I even built a house for my mother in Rwanda. I met other Rwandans. And our heart was always in Rwanda. And we established a nonprofit organization called Inyana. Inyana is a small cow, baby cow. And this Inyana was to support an orphanage in Rwanda.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:11

What made you then with that comfortable life in the US, return to UNHCR and then to difficult duty stations in the field?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 31:22

Indeed, I was so comfortable. Because when I finished, I was living at the school at my family in Connecticut. Good life. What can I say? And I did my master's degree. Good life. What can I say? But I always said, 'I will go back to UNHCR. I will go back to work for refugees. I will go back to work for displaced people.'

 

Melissa Fleming 31:46

You moved to many difficult places. You mentioned your time in Yemen, working for UNHCR. Your time now in South Sudan. Your time working on sexual and gender-based violence. These days, what is keeping you awake at night?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 32:08

You know, Melissa, what kept me awake 20 years ago is not what is keeping me awake today. What kept awake that time I told you is those children with feeling like hopeless. I can't do anything seeing those boys. You know, seeing those women. You know, I can't do anything. I feel like... I really slept a little, little, little at night. Especially during the time in Yemen. I slept a little. That's what kept me awake. How can I help these people?

But today, if you ask me, what keeps me awake? It's how can I give these refugees tools to support themselves with dignity. You know, I explained to you about the house that I lived in. Today, when we build shelter, I make sure you have at least two rooms where the mother and father have their own room, and the children have their own room. Not just one room and this is your shelter. No. So my...

What keeps me awake today is to make sure we get out of this dependency because I believe these people, they have a brain. They are very smart. They have arms. They can do things for themselves. How can we give them the tools to work, to farm, to go there to get their sweet potatoes in their garden and come eat. Not waiting for rice. To be given rice or be given beans, or to be given... What can [inaudible]? What can we do to give them these means to help themselves? For me, if I was not given that chance to go to school, if I was not given that chance to know that you are a refugee, but you have a brain. To know that you can help yourself and help others. That's what I want for the refugees today to have. Yeah.

 

Melissa Fleming 34:35

I wonder... I know that you mentioned thinking about the welfare of your little boy. You are in duty stations where they often can't be living with you. How do you manage being a mother and a wife and keeping the family intact?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 35:00

You know, when I met my husband, he was in Western Sahara. He's from Barcelona. And the first thing I told him. 'If you want to be together, we get married. I will never leave my job. If children come, we have to agree from now that we get married, we have children and one of us has to take care of the children. And it's not me because I'm not going to leave my job.' And I was lucky. You know, it's not everybody who are lucky. I'm very lucky. Juan Jose is a very good person. He told me, 'I will leave my job. I will take care of my children.' So with his support, I'm able to do what I do.

This is the choice I made. If there is an opportunity to be in a family duty station together, Alhamdulillah, we are okay. But if there is no opportunity and I have to go to South Sudan to help refugees that also they are my family. So, I don't think a lot, 'Oh, I need to be with my children.' No. When I leave, I think where I'm going. But of course, my children, I call them. We talk every day. But I don't say that I have to stop working because I want to go to be with them. Because they are happy. When I am happy, they are happy. I am very sure.

I will tell you when I went to Yemen, by the way, I left Joel. He was four months old. I left him at the airport. I stopped breastfeeding him at the airport. I handed the baby [inaudible], and I went to Yemen. And I didn't see them again until six months. But in the plane, Melissa, believe it or not, I didn't cry at all. Because I already said, I [inaudible] my head this is what I'm going to do. Joel is in the good hands of the father. Let me go help those ones who are in need. So that's how I have been managing. And also having a husband who supports me very much. And I'm able to do what I do.

 

Melissa Fleming 37:26

Sounds like a wonderful husband. And when you think about your two boys and you think about all the refugee children you met, are you hopeful?

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 37:39

100%. And then when actually I took my children to Western Sahara, they came. They spent one week in the camp. The reason I did that. Joel always was asking me, 'Mama, why are you here? You go. You help other children, and you leave us. We are not your children?' And I tried to explain, tried to explain. And I said, 'Maybe when they go there, they will see what I do. Then maybe they understand.' So I took Joel. Believe me, since they spent one week in the tent in the camp, he went back, and he was giving me clothes. 'Mama, take these clothes to the children.' So he understood. So up to now, he's 16 years old, he understands. And the one who is nine years old, also he understands. So they accommodate me. They understand what I do. And they are supporting too.

 

Melissa Fleming 38:31

Juliette, thank you so much for sharing your amazing life journey with me.

 

Juliette Murekeyisoni 38:37

Thank you very much for having me.

 

Melissa Fleming 38:40

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people to find the show.

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell, to Adam Paylor, Josie Le Blond, and my colleagues at the UN: Katerina Kitidi, Roberta Politi, Geneva Damayanti, Tulin Battikhi, Bissera Kostova, Anzhelika Devis, and Carlos Macias. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier. Additional music was by Pascal Wyse.