“Going to Extremes” – Podcast by the UNOCT International Hub on Behavioural Insights to Counter Terrorism

Welcome to the podcast page of the UNOCT Behavioural Insights Hub in Doha, Qatar. Whether you are a policy maker, a project manager, a researcher, a practitioner, or simply want to learn more about the topic, this is the right space to find the latest news on Behavioural insights and its applications to countering terrorism, violent extremism, and radicalization.

The Podcast series will capture the latest research and innovation bringing together experts and decision-makers from around the world to discuss solutions to preventing and countering violent extremism. The programme will comprise of a number of seasons each dedicated to a specific topic.

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Listen and subscribe via Spotify and PodBean. New episodes are released periodically. Want to join the conversation? Connect with us via Twitter

Season 1: The Trajectory to radicalization

Season 1 will follow what has been recognized as the trajectory that an individual often takes in becoming radicalized, further leading to violent extremism and committing acts of terrorism. The season will cover the five phases of this trajectory, which include:

Attraction
Engagement
Participation
Disengagement
Reintegration

Each phase will have two episodes and each episode will host a different behavioural insights expert, coming from a different field of expertise. The selected experts are recognized as leaders in the field of behavioural sciences, countering terrorism and preventing and countering violent extremism (CT/PCVE).

Attraction to join extremist groups

This episode features Dr. Sophia Moskalenko, a social and clinical psychologist and a research fellow at the Evidence-Based Cybersecurity Group with Georgia State University, who speaks on how and why people are attracted to join extremist groups and become radicalized to commit acts of terrorism. She discusses the role of ideology and the importance of accounting for non-ideological factors, such as emotional triggers and cognitive dissonance.

This episode continues to explore the attraction of joining extremist groups and becoming radicalized to commit acts of terrorism. It features Mr. Mubin Sheikh who shares his personal experience going through a period of deradicalization, and becoming counter extremism specialist for the U.S.-based NGO, Parents for Peace, as well as serving as a professor of public safety at Seneca College in Canada. Mubin shares his unique experiences, and the interview unpacks the mechanisms involved in his radicalization, looking at the role of shame, perceived masculinity, ideology, and role-modeling in the process. This episode also outlines a set of recommendations for preventing attraction to terrorism based on Mubin’s own trajectory and reading of the literature.

In our third episode, professor Bloom explores the “trajectory of engagement” with conspiracy theories and political movements. She then discusses which typologies of followers present a threat and which do not. The episode ends with a discussion on how to communicate with people who have fallen victim to conspiracy theories.

In our fourth episode, Dr. Hamid discusses the trajectory of engagement highlighting the importance of social inclusion and the power of social norms in preventing and countering radicalization. Dr. Hamid presents several recommendations based on his research. These include amplifying non-violent peer group voices and communications through storytelling.

How can neuroscience be applied to countering terrorism and ensuring effective disengagement and reintegration? In our fifth episode, Mike Niconchuk, a board member at Tallberg Foundation, discusses the role of hormones in regulating behavior, the importance of trauma-informed approaches and the use of mental health and psycho-social support programmes.

The episode also delves into how terrorist groups succeed at mobilizing followers and eliciting devotion, and what we can learn from this. The episode wraps up with neuroscientific insights for strategic communication on preventing and countering violent extremism.

In our sixth episode, Phil Gurski discusses the trajectory of participation in terrorism stemming from 15 years of experience focussing on radicalization to terrorism with Canada’s Intelligence Service (CSIS/CSE), as well as working in threat and risk consulting and academia (University of Ottawa). Mr Gurski elaborates on the overlap and discrepancies between the data collected for intelligence analysis and research. He outlines commonalities and differences between extremists and violent extremists in identifying violent threat markers, specifically the trajectory of decision-making, which he has observed throughout his career in participating in terrorism related research.

In our seventh episode we are joined by Dr. Ryan Scrivens, Assistant Professor at the School of Criminal Justice at Michigan State University, Associate Director at the International Cyber Crime Research Centre at Simon Fraser University in Canada, and Research Fellow at the VOX-Pol Network of Excellence in Ireland.

Dr. Scrivens discusses disengagement from terrorism, with specific reference to terrorism motivated by “far-right” or “extreme right-wing” ideology. Highlighting the difference between deradicalization and disengagement he outlines the often unexpected reasons people choose to disengage from terrorism. Dr. Scrivens also talks about strategies to facilitate disengagement and how to capitalize on the experiences of “formers” (persons previously involved in acts of violent extremism).

In episode 8 of “Going to Extremes”, we speak with Dr. Jamie Khalil – an independent PCVE, deradicalization and disengagement specialist. Based on his research with former members of Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab, Dr Khalil outlines the processes involved in disengaging from terrorist or extremist groups and alludes to the reasons why people join these groups in the first place. He also delves into the phenomenon of disengagement without prior deradicalization and describes key factors for successful disengagement programmes.

In the ninth episode of our podcast, Noah Tucker, program associate at George Washington University's Elliot School of International Affairs Central Asia Program, discusses reintegration of former terrorist fighters in Central Asia. Tucker explores the role of trauma-informed approaches to reintegration and rehabilitation, the importance of community support, as well as the right messaging for successful reintegration campaigns. He also touches on the role of gender and participation of women from Central Asia in terrorist groups.

Our final episode features Dr. Sarah Marsden, Senior Lecturer in the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at the University of St Andrews, who discusses key factors for successful reintegration interventions as well as known barriers to reintegration of former terrorist fighters. Based on her research, Marsden advocates for strengths-based reintegration approaches and delves into reintegration following desistance and/or deradicalization and the role of “formers” in facilitating this.

We value your thoughts and invite you to participate in our podcast survey to help us shape future episodes. Your input matters! The survey can be accessed through the following link:

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